'The definition of Hindu rashtra will be diluted'

Q&A/WALTER ANDERSON

, a former US diplomat who has done extensive research on the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), knows the Sangh Parivar's politics better than many Indians.

His book Brotherhood in Saffron is considered one of the best commentaries on the RSS. During his tenure as a diplomat, Anderson provided the state department with vital inputs about the dynamics of power within the BJP and the NDA.

He continues to advise the Bush administration on the finer points of Sangh politics.

Anderson, who was in India to address a meeting organised by the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (Ficci), spoke to Business Standard. Excerpts:

Your book Brotherhood in Saffron, which was published in 1988, dealt with the rise of the Sangh Parivar and the BJP in Indian politics. A lot has changed since then, with the BJP being the party in power at the Centre. Has the BJP changed from when you knew it?

My impression is that the BJP has grown. By entering into coalition politics, the party has now been forced by circumstances to dilute its cultural nationalism, the policy for Ayodhya and other elements of the Hindutva agenda. I do not mean that the lobby pursuing hard-line Hindutva has disappeared.

But the Prime Minister and his deputy have tactfully kept all those issues on the backburner. I think that they will be pretty happy if the Ayodhya case continues to linger on in the courts for another thousand years.

Then, the BJP has accustomed itself to the ruling culture and learnt to make compromises. In 1988, the BJP did not have any such compulsions and was ideologically pure and less bureaucratic. Now, I need to write a fresh book on the subject .

Do you see it as a genuine transformation of the BJP or a tactical move to grab power?

It is genuine. The BJP has realised the limitations of pursuing the Hindutva agenda. It could not go beyond 183 seats in the Lok Sabha. The party leadership understands the necessity to appeal to a wider constituency.

This was clearly visible in the recently-concluded state elections where all those signs of Hindutva were not emphasised in the campaign. The focus was on developmental issues.

I hope the Prime Minister and his deputy can maintain a similar focus on the developmental issues in the next Lok Sabha elections.

They might face snide remarks from disruptive elements like the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP). But where can they [the VHP] go?

But the VHP keeps pressuring the government on the Hindutva agenda....

It will certainly not give up its cultural agenda. But despite disagreement within the Sangh Parivar on many ideological issues, there has been no rebellion. Nobody spoke up against the Prime Minister.

Even Narendra Modi, who considers himself an icon, did not dare develop himself as an alternative power pole within the Sangh Parivar.

This shows that the BJP is becoming increasingly independent of the RSS in taking its own decisions. In my view, the RSS and the BJP will grow separately.

Do you mean that the RSS will break off its symbiotic relationship with the BJP in the coming days?

No, what I am saying is that the RSS will not meddle with the BJP's affairs. There is a strong reason for this. The RSS is historically suspicious of politics.

This is precisely why the RSS deputes pracharaks [exclusive RSS volunteers] and has set up a network of organisation secretaries at every level to keep a firm grip on the party.

Now the chain of organisational secretaries has become irrelevant because, in many places, the post of organisational secretaries has been abolished.

The organisation secretary is no longer central to the BJP's scheme of things. This illustrates the fact that the BJP has grown so large that it has to make compromises.

In such circumstances, there will be a possibility of conflict of interest between the RSS and the BJP. Do you think that the BJP has outgrown the RSS and is in the process of dumping it altogether?

My impression is that there will be incremental distancing between the RSS and the BJP. The present Sarsanghchalak [RSS chief K S Sudarshan] is not a charismatic personality, unlike his predecessors.

This relationship is passing through a transitory phase. But there are certain places where the BJP has far outgrown the RSS.

Whatever be the RSS's protestations, the fact is that the real power lies in politics. And I am told that the RSS is facing a tough time retaining young talent within its fold.

This is the reason for the emergence of young leaders like Arun Jaitley in the BJP who have a background of activism in the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP). This is a significant development that has gone unnoticed in the media.

Similarly, Pramod Mahajan and Jaswant Singh are not exactly great favourites of the RSS. But they are close to the Prime Minister and have his ear, because pragmatic politics so dictates.

In what way do you differentiate between the ABVP and other RSS-backed organisations like the VHP, the Swadeshi Jagran Manch and the Bharatiya Mazdoor Sangh?

The ABVP runs elections and understands electoral politics in which even a sceptical audience has to be satisfied. The VHP and the Swadeshi Jagran Manch have no such compulsions.

But the same ABVP team supervised the Gujarat elections only a year ago. How do you co-relate the Gujarat elections with the recently-held state assembly elections?

I will give a moral opinion: the Gujarat election was a blot on Indian democracy. The Gujarat crisis emerged out of the circumstances and because of the position of a man like Narendra Modi as the chief minister.

But there was no replication of Gujarat-like circumstances in subsequent polls. I am told that there was a specific move to keep the VHP out of these Assembly polls.

How do you view the attempt by the Prime Minister to improve India's relationship with Pakistan?

Despite the fact that there was an international desire for an improvement in the relationship between India and Pakistan, the Prime Minister's move is also intended to take the issue of "Islamic terrorism" out of domestic politics and make it an international issue.

This will ultimately take the sting out of the communal campaigns by the likes of the VHP and Narendra Modi against Pakistan and Musharraf.

But devoid of its core agenda, the BJP will run the risk of becoming another Congress. Will it give up its agenda of turning India into a Hindu rashtra?

As a theory, the concept of Hindu rashtra will remain. But its definition will be diluted. Today an essential component of Hindutva is the "stability and greatness of India".

The Prime Minister has successfully appealed to the "greatness of India" to neutralise fundamentalists within the Sangh Parivar. His focus on "shining India" is important for the growing middle-class.

And I tell you that a leader who conveys optimism is far more acceptable than one conveying pessimism. And the hard-line Hindutva agenda is a pessimistic agenda. Most Indians are worried about the economy and jobs now.

There was a lot of scepticism in the US about the pace of economic reforms in India. Given the Sangh Parivar's proclivity for swadeshi, how do you view the economic policies of the BJP-led NDA?

Yes, there was a great deal of frustration in the US over the slow pace of market liberalisation in India. But I used to tell people that it would be wrong to expect Indian markets to open up very fast.

This will not happen and this is also India's strength. I am pretty sure that there will neither be significant privatisation nor labour reforms happening in India in the near future "" not because of the BJP's ideology but because of practical politics.

Such a process will lead to loss of jobs. Similarly, it will be wrong to expect a cut in the agriculture subsidy because of the presence of a powerful lobby of farmers.