Recently, the Supreme Court's observation that CBI was a "caged parrot" that "speaks in its master's voice" has brought the issue of autonomy for the investigating agency in focus. In an interview with Avantika Bhuyan, former CBI chief, Joginder Singh, talks about the political pressures of working at the agency and the way forward
Do you agree with the Supreme Court's observation? What are the political pressures facing CBI?
What it [the Supreme Court] has said is true to an extent. For instance, for hiring an advocate to represent CBI in a case, one has to go to the law ministry. Then one has to go to the home ministry for Interpol and inter-state related matters. It is the home ministry that also sends cases from other states.
At what levels is there political interference during an investigation? Any examples from your tenure?
CBI comes under the personnel ministry, which is directly under the purview of the prime minister. Does that dilute CBI's authority, with it becoming the investigating agency for that particular government?
Once I got a call from a minister from the United Front government [who said] that he wanted to meet me. I always believed that if you start running after ministers then you will face numerous allegations and get caught in a web. I went to the PM [and said] that I don't want to meet anyone "but you and the home minister". When the minister called me again, I told him that "I won't come to you but you will have to come and meet me at my office if there is an official matter". So, one should form a correct habit of expectations with the political brass. If they know you will go so far and no further, they will respect you and your distance.
Do different governments behave differently with CBI? Is the UPA government any different from the NDA government?
All parties are the same. No one wants a strong CBI. Recently, when I was on a news show, I told a member of the opposition to draft a bill about this. The thing is that parties want a strong CBI when they are in opposition and a weak CBI when they are in power. Everyone is just passing time. For instance, on September 22, 2006, the Supreme Court instructed central and state governments to comply with a set of directives to kickstart police reforms. That is still in limbo. One hears excuses like "we are trying to build a political consensus". We don't have a Witness Protection Act and no Whistle Blower's Act. But we expect the accused to be punished. The truth is that no one is taking the fight against corruption seriously. All governments are the same.
In April, Mulayam Singh Yadav said that he is at the mercy of CBI which is investigating him for having disproportionate assets. Then there was a raid against a senior leader from DMK just after it pulled out from the coalition. Would you say that CBI has become a tool for political vendetta?
What you say is partly true. CBI can send a report to the government but it doesn't appear in court. The advocate for the case is appointed by the law ministry, so, in a way, the government decides what line the advocate will take. Do you know how much the prosecutor was being paid in the Rajiv Gandhi assassination case? A mere Rs 150 a day. I rang up the law minister and said, "you are making a mockery by paying him pittance". After that, the lawyer was paid Rs 1,500. Such is the state of affairs in the government. You need permission from the government to file a chargesheet. CBI is not given any power anywhere. It's like someone has tied your hands and legs and then asks you to win the gold medal at the Olympics. If it's a chargesheet against someone from the railways, you need permission from the railway minister etc. Permissions are usually given but that is followed by numerous queries and questions. As far as CBI raiding the house of a DMK leader after the pullout is concerned, see, whatever CBI does will be questioned. CBI doesn't have an astrologer who decided the timing of the raid. When it has adequate information, that's when the raids happen.
What is the way forward?
In my opinion, CBI should be given the same status as the Election Commission and CAG. Form an oversight committee comprising a retired judge and 10 to 15 members from various political parties. The committee should meet once every six months and table the reports in parliament. Have the proper checks and balances in place.
Do you agree with the Supreme Court's observation? What are the political pressures facing CBI?
What it [the Supreme Court] has said is true to an extent. For instance, for hiring an advocate to represent CBI in a case, one has to go to the law ministry. Then one has to go to the home ministry for Interpol and inter-state related matters. It is the home ministry that also sends cases from other states.
At what levels is there political interference during an investigation? Any examples from your tenure?
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When I was heading CBI, I firmly believed that no one gives you independence - you have to snatch it. I was of the opinion that if you have given me the responsibility, then you need to give me the authority as well. But the government will arm you with responsibility and impose its own authority. For instance, the Sukhram case was the first one that I handled. Investigations had been pending for a year, even though all the information was in place. When I took charge, I issued orders for investigation. When I went to the then prime minister, Deve Gowda, he was a little hesitant as he was depending on Congress for votes. But I must say that he was a bold man and allowed me to investigate. The cash recovered was to the tune of Rs 3.61 crore and one of the highest ever for that time. Even the Bofors case met with a lot of resistance at every step. I used to pretend that I didn't understand half the suggestions. I also imposed a rule that unless the PM tells you something three times, don't take it seriously.
CBI comes under the personnel ministry, which is directly under the purview of the prime minister. Does that dilute CBI's authority, with it becoming the investigating agency for that particular government?
Once I got a call from a minister from the United Front government [who said] that he wanted to meet me. I always believed that if you start running after ministers then you will face numerous allegations and get caught in a web. I went to the PM [and said] that I don't want to meet anyone "but you and the home minister". When the minister called me again, I told him that "I won't come to you but you will have to come and meet me at my office if there is an official matter". So, one should form a correct habit of expectations with the political brass. If they know you will go so far and no further, they will respect you and your distance.
Do different governments behave differently with CBI? Is the UPA government any different from the NDA government?
All parties are the same. No one wants a strong CBI. Recently, when I was on a news show, I told a member of the opposition to draft a bill about this. The thing is that parties want a strong CBI when they are in opposition and a weak CBI when they are in power. Everyone is just passing time. For instance, on September 22, 2006, the Supreme Court instructed central and state governments to comply with a set of directives to kickstart police reforms. That is still in limbo. One hears excuses like "we are trying to build a political consensus". We don't have a Witness Protection Act and no Whistle Blower's Act. But we expect the accused to be punished. The truth is that no one is taking the fight against corruption seriously. All governments are the same.
In April, Mulayam Singh Yadav said that he is at the mercy of CBI which is investigating him for having disproportionate assets. Then there was a raid against a senior leader from DMK just after it pulled out from the coalition. Would you say that CBI has become a tool for political vendetta?
What you say is partly true. CBI can send a report to the government but it doesn't appear in court. The advocate for the case is appointed by the law ministry, so, in a way, the government decides what line the advocate will take. Do you know how much the prosecutor was being paid in the Rajiv Gandhi assassination case? A mere Rs 150 a day. I rang up the law minister and said, "you are making a mockery by paying him pittance". After that, the lawyer was paid Rs 1,500. Such is the state of affairs in the government. You need permission from the government to file a chargesheet. CBI is not given any power anywhere. It's like someone has tied your hands and legs and then asks you to win the gold medal at the Olympics. If it's a chargesheet against someone from the railways, you need permission from the railway minister etc. Permissions are usually given but that is followed by numerous queries and questions. As far as CBI raiding the house of a DMK leader after the pullout is concerned, see, whatever CBI does will be questioned. CBI doesn't have an astrologer who decided the timing of the raid. When it has adequate information, that's when the raids happen.
What is the way forward?
In my opinion, CBI should be given the same status as the Election Commission and CAG. Form an oversight committee comprising a retired judge and 10 to 15 members from various political parties. The committee should meet once every six months and table the reports in parliament. Have the proper checks and balances in place.