You cannot fund every university to be as good as Harvard: THE's Phil Baty

He said that the govt should recognise universities with potential and then help them internationalise with better funding

At the core of a slower growth among Indian universities' representation in global rankings used to be a reluctance to share data, especially with overseas ranking agencies. But not anymore, says Phil Baty, Editorial Director - Global Rankings, Times Higher Education (THE), known for its annual World University Rankings, who is in India to talk about data benchmarking. Baty is not just impressed by the change in attitude among Indian varsities, but also by the government's policy push in the form of Higher Education Financing Agency (HEFA), National Institute Ranking Framework (NIRF) and Institutes of Eminence. In an interview with VINAY UMARJI, Baty talks about what has changed since his previous visit and what challenges still remain in Indian universities making their mark in global rankings. Edited excerpts:

You held meetings with MHRD officials and top institutes on data benchmarking for global rankings including THE World University Rankings. What was the outcome?

We were able to work more closely with the Indian government. We will be signing an MoU on sharing information of top universities to make sure they participate in global rankings. We have a rapidly growing number of Indian universities taking part in global rankings. But we want to make sure that all Indian universities that are eligible are visible and take part in the process. And so, we are having formal talks with the government so that we work together in sharing information and that those missing universities become visible by data benchmarking.

What were some of the key takeaways for you from the data benchmarking seminar?

Earlier in 2013, when I came to speak about data benchmarking, there used to be a lot of criticism and resistance in sharing data among Indian universities. Not anymore. A big change has occurred in the last few years where India is now ready to embrace the fact that it is a major global economic powerhouse and the universities are a big part of its future. As a result, these universities need to compete in the world market in academics, student talent and research. 

It is encouraging to see a lot of policy initiatives from the government. We noticed that a lot of Times Higher Education metrics align with the government's and universities' exercises to benchmark data for rankings.

What challenges do you think Indian universities still face in global rankings?

Challenges still remain in funding. Government funding for supporting research is very important. Internationalisation is another challenge where Indian universities need to work harder. In addition, there is a need for more research collaboration and international academics working at Indian universities. Another challenge is bureaucracy and red-tapism where it seems Indian universities are over-burdened with regulations and makes it harder for them to operate. 

How are the Indian higher education institutes faring over the years in global rankings? What, according to you, is working in their favour and what not?

One thing that stands out from our data analysis is that they have very good teaching environment and very good faculty: student ratios, better-than-world average. The negative is that they lack good industry links unlike their peers in China and Singapore where industries and business houses fund a lot of research work. Indian universities lag behind in internationalisation, which also means they are behind in research quality.

How co-operative are Indian Institutes when it comes to sharing data?

In the last few years, the number of Indian universities taking part in data benchmarking in a global database has grown drastically. In the current round of data collection that we closed, we have 75 Indian universities and that is a record number.  

How do Indian universities fare in terms of research citations and international collaboration compared to their peers?

While they are behind in research collaboration, the positive sign is that the government seems to have recognised this lacuna. There is a general push towards enhancing this. The 'Institutes of Eminence' is a positive step towards it. Although there is a long way to go and there are many challenges, the outlook is positive.  

Institutes from which region seem to be the biggest competition to Indian institutes in global rankings?

China, of course, since it is similar in size. It is also a BRIC nation. It also has a similar huge population which requires education. But China is dramatically rising up in rankings which is a big threat to India. Of course, reacting now by making necessary changes could help India catch up with its global peers. 

What are your views on NIRF? Do you think having one's own ranking could impede data sharing by Indian institutions?

If it does nothing else, it encourages universities to think hard about collecting and understanding data. It is a very good step to understand your national context of higher education and then embracing global comparison. It influences the capacity of Indian universities to manage and share their data. 

What steps has the government assured to take to help Indian universities improve their representation in rankings?

The initiative of 'Institutes of Eminence' is a positive step in injecting competition. You have to recognise diversity and the fact that you cannot fund every university to be as good as Harvard or Stanford. You recognise universities with the potential to perform on global stage. This is being done by the government. However, I would like to see funding improve. I would also like to see an increase in the number of universities and more internationalisation efforts would be welcome. The steps being taken are positive but we need to ensure that they happen.

Apart from the regular rankings, how are Indian universities faring in terms of reputation? What more could be done on that front?

This also follows on the lines of internationalisation. There are some very well-renowned Indian universities in the reputation rankings. But one thing we have recognised is that most of their reputation comes from India and Asia as a region. But as universities get more international in terms of research and collaboration, they have more international recruitments and research quality improves, their reputation should also go up. 

Where do you see Indian institutes in the global rankings in the next five years?

All the ingredients are in place and though they are ranked behind, there is potential, particularly with internationalisation. I don't think we can expect a dramatic change in rankings without more funding, though the steps are being taken in that direction.