 "WTO has to start working and countries need to engage: Roberto Azevedo")
Roberto Azevedo, Brazil’s representative to the World Trade Organization (WTO), is in the race to become the next WTO director-general. He believes his main challenge will be to bring all the 160 member-countries back on the negotiating table to successfully conclude the stalled Doha round of global trade talks. Talking to Nayanima Basu during his one-day visit to India, he said countries now have to take bold steps to make the round happen. Edited excerpts:
Is this the first time a Brazilian candidate is nominated for the post? How strong are your chances?
This is for the second time a Brazilian candidate has been selected (for the post). The last time it happened was in 2004. At that time, we were not successful. But the world has changed a lot since then. This time, we are very comfortable the way the campaign has developed so far.
Perhaps for the first time in WTO’s history, there are several candidates from developing countries for the top post. Why this shift?
During his last visit to India, present WTO D-G Pascal Lamy had mentioned that his successor would have a huge challenge in continuing the Doha talks that seem to have hit a deadlock. Do you agree?
I think he is right. This is a huge challenge, but not impossible. I think the world has changed since 2008. Now, the crisis is better evaluated and assimilated by the countries. Today, we know where we are. We are slowly emerging from the crisis, but this is going to be slow and lengthy. This is now a known danger. We know what we are dealing with. The key players now know they cannot expect others to change their minds. The positions are clear and real. We need to stop searching for the ideal and start searching for the possible. We know what issues are stopping the Doha round and what flexibilities countries can offer. Today, we need trust, pragmatism and flexibility.
What do you think will be the outcome of the coming ministerial meet in Bali (Indonesia)?
There could be some significant achievements in the meet. There may not be a broad encompassing deal, but the outcome will be favourble. The trade facilitation agreement will be helpful, mostly because that will inject confidence in the negotiating system. I need to ensure the WTO starts working for members. Countries have to be bolder to engage.
This is your first trip to Asia since you have been nominated for the post, and your first destination is India...
The tours I have made have been very successful because I have had good engagements and I think the candidacy has been well received in almost all the countries that I have been to, such as South and Central America, Africa, Europe and others. From here (India), I will go to China and Japan. I am here to meet some of the senior officials (Commerce Minister Anand Sharma and Pinak Ranjan Chakravarty, secretary - economic relations in the ministry of external affairs). I have been to India many times before in the context of negotiations. I will continue (to visit India).
If every member needs the deal, then why are we seeing a proliferation of regional and bilateral arrangements?
That’s because the WTO is not seen as a viable forum for negotiations. That is why they are doing deals wherever possible because the world cannot stop. Governments had been very patient to strike a multilateral deal. The WTO now has to begin to do things and then only will the attention come back to do the deal.
What are those issues that are blocking the Doha deal to happen?
These are just few issues. And if these key issues could be solved, then the whole round can move quickly. And those are issues on non-agricultural market access, agriculture and services. So we have to find out what we can do and not we would like to do. So far, negotiations have been about what I need to convince respective constituencies. This frame of mind should change. But that does not mean we will have to lower our level of ambition.
Is this the first time a Brazilian candidate is nominated for the post? How strong are your chances?
This is for the second time a Brazilian candidate has been selected (for the post). The last time it happened was in 2004. At that time, we were not successful. But the world has changed a lot since then. This time, we are very comfortable the way the campaign has developed so far.
Perhaps for the first time in WTO’s history, there are several candidates from developing countries for the top post. Why this shift?
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Now, there is a tacit understanding. We have nine candidates from developing countries and only one from a developed country. This is a pretty good indication that developed countries themselves recognise, that this time it should be the turn of a candidate from a developing country.
During his last visit to India, present WTO D-G Pascal Lamy had mentioned that his successor would have a huge challenge in continuing the Doha talks that seem to have hit a deadlock. Do you agree?
I think he is right. This is a huge challenge, but not impossible. I think the world has changed since 2008. Now, the crisis is better evaluated and assimilated by the countries. Today, we know where we are. We are slowly emerging from the crisis, but this is going to be slow and lengthy. This is now a known danger. We know what we are dealing with. The key players now know they cannot expect others to change their minds. The positions are clear and real. We need to stop searching for the ideal and start searching for the possible. We know what issues are stopping the Doha round and what flexibilities countries can offer. Today, we need trust, pragmatism and flexibility.
What do you think will be the outcome of the coming ministerial meet in Bali (Indonesia)?
There could be some significant achievements in the meet. There may not be a broad encompassing deal, but the outcome will be favourble. The trade facilitation agreement will be helpful, mostly because that will inject confidence in the negotiating system. I need to ensure the WTO starts working for members. Countries have to be bolder to engage.
This is your first trip to Asia since you have been nominated for the post, and your first destination is India...
The tours I have made have been very successful because I have had good engagements and I think the candidacy has been well received in almost all the countries that I have been to, such as South and Central America, Africa, Europe and others. From here (India), I will go to China and Japan. I am here to meet some of the senior officials (Commerce Minister Anand Sharma and Pinak Ranjan Chakravarty, secretary - economic relations in the ministry of external affairs). I have been to India many times before in the context of negotiations. I will continue (to visit India).
If every member needs the deal, then why are we seeing a proliferation of regional and bilateral arrangements?
That’s because the WTO is not seen as a viable forum for negotiations. That is why they are doing deals wherever possible because the world cannot stop. Governments had been very patient to strike a multilateral deal. The WTO now has to begin to do things and then only will the attention come back to do the deal.
What are those issues that are blocking the Doha deal to happen?
These are just few issues. And if these key issues could be solved, then the whole round can move quickly. And those are issues on non-agricultural market access, agriculture and services. So we have to find out what we can do and not we would like to do. So far, negotiations have been about what I need to convince respective constituencies. This frame of mind should change. But that does not mean we will have to lower our level of ambition.