that the OBCs who can benefit from reservation in educational institutions have been barred from doing so. Now that the OBC quota judgment is out, what role do you see for the political executive?
Of course there is a role for the political executive. In all this, it is the political class which has been the most sensitive of all. All parties in Parliament unanimously cleared the Bill asking for reservations, a demand which was not made by the OBCs, mind you. The courts, on their part, have put so many conditions. First is the creamy layer issue, which effectively nullifies the benefit of the reservation by excluding those most likely to be able to take advantage of it. The present definition of creamy layer is so unrealistic that even a clerk or a peon's child will not be able to avail of the reservation. Nearly 16 years after the implementation of the Mandal Commission recommendations, the OBC representation in government (jobs) is as low as 5-6 per cent, only 1 per cent more the level before the reservation, since most of those who can avail of the reservation have been kept out. "Yeh patli chhachh hai, creamy layer kahan" (this is thin buttermilk, not the creamy layer).
The second issue is that of review. On what basis is the court or even the government going to review the reservation? The current levels are based on the 1931 census. I demand that a caste census be undertaken. I am sure the OBCs will be more than 52 per cent of the population. The third issue is the selection in the institutes. How will the government ensure that the caste bias does not work there.
There are supposed to be pockets of empowered castes among the OBCs. Do you forsee an internecine conflict between those who are empowered and those who remain backward?
Who are the OBCs? Castes like Ahirs, Gujjars, Kurmis, Yadavs, Koeris? If so, can you name 10 millionaires from among their ranks? There are at least over a lakh Brahmin millionaires and more among the banias. In such a scenario, who are these empowered people you are talking about. A lot of people point at me when they speak of the Ahirs or the Yadavs. I am an exception to my caste. I topped the engineering entrance in 1966, my wife is a PhD, I have Colonels and Majors in the army in my family, my wife's brother was a director in Modern Foods. I have been an MP for 34 years, so what my daughter gets is the benefit of environment, but she is not typical of the rest of our caste. Just as Babu Jagjivan Ram's example was cited to talk about the creamy layer among the scheduled castes, my example is also cited. It is not fair on the rest of the community.
In 60 years, we have perhaps seen one Dalit secretary to government of India and one chief justice. Those talking of empowerment should consider this. Largely, the OBCs are backward and they are being denied opportunities.
Who do you see benefiting politically from this OBC reservation, the Congress or parties like the Rashtriya Janata Dal and the Samajwadi Party?
No single party will benefit from this as the entire Parliament was a party to the legislation. To take credit, one has to demonstrate the fact that it was done against all odds, like the Mandal Commission. In this case, everyone supported the move and it was the political will that saw the Bill through. In fact, even when it comes to reservation for OBCs in private educational institutes, there is a widespread political consensus on the issue. If the Congress thinks it will gain politically through this, it is fooling itself.
Coming away from the OBC quota issue, your former allies and fellow travellers are trying to forge a Third Front. How do you see this panning out?
I have said this before, and I will say it again "" as of today, there are only two political formations which enjoy popular, nationwide support. These are the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) led by the BJP of which the JD(U) is a part, and the United Progressive alliance (UPA) led by the Congress which is in power now. Everything else is political expediency.
The UNPA, which you are talking about, is already unraveling and has limited appeal spread over a couple of states. I don't see it becoming an important force in the country. More likely, it will unravel soon. In fact, it is already short of a couple of parties which were there in its first meeting. Some of its members were part of these two alliances in the past but to say that they represent popular opinion in the country is a fallacy.
You have been angry with your ally, the BJP, on the way it has gone about ticket distribution in Karnataka. Do you see this affecting your ties in other states like Bihar? Looking at the way two BJP ministers were dropped.
I have already said all I wanted to on the matter. These things happen and talks between the Janata Dal (U) and the BJP on seat-sharing in Karnataka are still going on (at the time of writing).
