 "We want to see Nitish ji as the prime minister: Jitan Ram Manjhi")
The Janata Dal (United), JD (U), and the Rashtriya Janata Dal (RJD) have struck an electoral alliance to contest the August 21 by-polls in Bihar for 10 Assembly seats. Bihar Chief Minister Jitan Ram Manjhi talks to Satyavrat Mishra about the reasons behind foes having turned friends. Edited excerpts:
The JD (U) opposed the RJD for two decades. How have you become friends overnight?
Change is the rule of nature. The RJD's years in the government had some positive traits as well. I used to be with them then and I feel they initiated powerful social reform by empowering the underprivileged. Today, the country faces tough times. The party in power at the Centre is testing the patience of the people. They want to repeal Article 370 of the Constitution, revive the mandir-masjid issue and usher in a common civil code.
The JD (U), as a part of the National Democratic Alliance, had termed the RJD's rule as "jungle raj"?
There are times when a party has to follow the coalition dharma. In that perspective, something might have been said. But I never said or thought that there was such a period in Bihar's political history. In every state, there are times when the number of law-and-order related incidents go up. That does not mean that the state suffers from "jungle raj". Indeed, there was a time in Bihar when conditions had become difficult for the people. But as I said, change is the rule of nature. Things change and accordingly our ways of thinking also need to change. If we keep fighting with ourselves, then communal and obscurantist forces would strengthen and divide the country. Even if there are some grievances, we are ready to forget them for the larger good of the country. We have no problems in joining hands with anti-communal forces like the RJD or Congress or Left parties.
Is it only about fighting communal forces or does the JD (U) fear losing power?
We can implement our policies only when we get the platform. It's true that we don't want the ruling party at the Centre to get power in Bihar. For that, we have joined hands and we are working together to keep them out of the state.
Will this alliance be extended to the Assembly elections, which is scheduled in late 2015?
That remains to be seen. If the need arises for us to join hands with them to keep communal forces at bay, then we would certainly invite them to form an alliance. We are ready to join hands with anyone opposing communal forces. However, there have been no talks on this matter so far. The biggest priority at the moment is to ensure victory in the by-polls in the 10 Assembly seats.
There are suggestions that JD (U) leaders don't want to share the stage with Lalu Prasad Yadav. Would you like to share the stage with him?
This is a lie. We are together and ready to campaign with our coalition partners, if it's needed. Lalu ji is welcome to campaign for our candidates and our leader, Nitish ji, could also campaign for RJD candidates. The two might also share the stage. I am willing to share the stage with Lalu ji if my party leadership orders me to do so. I have earlier worked with Lalu ji and have no problems with sharing the stage with him.
You recently said Nitish Kumar would return as CM if the JD (U) gets a majority in the Assembly elections next year.
It is a unanimous decision of the legislative party of the JD (U) that Nitish ji will return to the helm after the elections. We never wanted Nitish ji to resign and, therefore, did everything to persuade him to take his resignation back. But he remained firm. Then we asked him to return as the chief minister if our party would get a majority next year, which he accepted. He is our leader and we will contest the next year's election under his leadership.
He is the true leader of secular forces. We want to see him as the prime minister. If that's not possible, then I am ready to vacate my chair any time he wishes. I would be the first to propose his name as the next CM whenever he decides to return. All the party legislators want this.
There were reports of discord between you and Nitish Kumar.
These are baseless rumours. In a family, every member is allowed to put forth their opinion, but decisions are taken on the basis of the majority. Nitish ji is our leader and we go to him to seek his advice on issues. But I am the CM and I run the government. There were occasions when he felt some decisions should be delayed, but I insisted otherwise and he accepted my view. But there have also been instances where he persuaded me with facts and figures over some decisions. There is no difference of opinion here.
There are allegations of indiscipline in your Cabinet. A few days back you said in the state Assembly that several districts faced a drought-like situation. The very next day your agriculture minister disputed your claim on the floor of the House.
Whatever I said in the house has now been substantiated by facts. I saw on the ground how difficult the situation was for farmers because of scarce rainfall. People are demanding that the government declare their districts drought-affected. But that doesn't mean Narendra Singh (the agriculture minister) was wrong. He may have said what he saw in his home district, which has received above normal rainfall this year. Our Cabinet meetings see healthy discussions and exchange of views. But my word is final in matters of governance and everybody accepts it.
The law and order situation has deteriorated in the state. Incidents of communal violence have also increased.
I don't believe communal violence has gone up in Bihar. There is complete communal harmony in the state. Anti-social elements had engineered some of these incidents. We have asked the people and administration to keep a constant vigil. The number of criminal cases may have gone up, but that does not mean that the number of incidents have increased.
What about the incidents of police firing? There have been four such major incidents in the last three months.
It was seen that police officials were being beaten up just because they were following court orders. The police has to take tough action if people flout rules to achieve political goals. I accept that it is possible those responsible for these law and order situations might have run away and innocent civilians became victims. We have announced compensation for the victims. I don't think the police over-reacted, but we have constituted high-level investigation committees to look into these incidents.
The JD (U) opposed the RJD for two decades. How have you become friends overnight?
Change is the rule of nature. The RJD's years in the government had some positive traits as well. I used to be with them then and I feel they initiated powerful social reform by empowering the underprivileged. Today, the country faces tough times. The party in power at the Centre is testing the patience of the people. They want to repeal Article 370 of the Constitution, revive the mandir-masjid issue and usher in a common civil code.
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India is a union of various states, people and beliefs. These steps can potentially destroy the spirit of our Constitution and lead to further divisions in the country. Those of us who love this country cannot allow such forces to prevail. For this, our leaders, Nitish ji and our president Sharad Yadav ji, took the decision to join hands with like-minded people and parties to defeat such forces. This wasn't a decision taken in haste but after much deliberation. We would like to replicate this alliance at the national level as well, an ideological coalition, which could then become a political alliance as well.
The JD (U), as a part of the National Democratic Alliance, had termed the RJD's rule as "jungle raj"?
There are times when a party has to follow the coalition dharma. In that perspective, something might have been said. But I never said or thought that there was such a period in Bihar's political history. In every state, there are times when the number of law-and-order related incidents go up. That does not mean that the state suffers from "jungle raj". Indeed, there was a time in Bihar when conditions had become difficult for the people. But as I said, change is the rule of nature. Things change and accordingly our ways of thinking also need to change. If we keep fighting with ourselves, then communal and obscurantist forces would strengthen and divide the country. Even if there are some grievances, we are ready to forget them for the larger good of the country. We have no problems in joining hands with anti-communal forces like the RJD or Congress or Left parties.
Is it only about fighting communal forces or does the JD (U) fear losing power?
We can implement our policies only when we get the platform. It's true that we don't want the ruling party at the Centre to get power in Bihar. For that, we have joined hands and we are working together to keep them out of the state.
Will this alliance be extended to the Assembly elections, which is scheduled in late 2015?
That remains to be seen. If the need arises for us to join hands with them to keep communal forces at bay, then we would certainly invite them to form an alliance. We are ready to join hands with anyone opposing communal forces. However, there have been no talks on this matter so far. The biggest priority at the moment is to ensure victory in the by-polls in the 10 Assembly seats.
There are suggestions that JD (U) leaders don't want to share the stage with Lalu Prasad Yadav. Would you like to share the stage with him?
This is a lie. We are together and ready to campaign with our coalition partners, if it's needed. Lalu ji is welcome to campaign for our candidates and our leader, Nitish ji, could also campaign for RJD candidates. The two might also share the stage. I am willing to share the stage with Lalu ji if my party leadership orders me to do so. I have earlier worked with Lalu ji and have no problems with sharing the stage with him.
You recently said Nitish Kumar would return as CM if the JD (U) gets a majority in the Assembly elections next year.
It is a unanimous decision of the legislative party of the JD (U) that Nitish ji will return to the helm after the elections. We never wanted Nitish ji to resign and, therefore, did everything to persuade him to take his resignation back. But he remained firm. Then we asked him to return as the chief minister if our party would get a majority next year, which he accepted. He is our leader and we will contest the next year's election under his leadership.
He is the true leader of secular forces. We want to see him as the prime minister. If that's not possible, then I am ready to vacate my chair any time he wishes. I would be the first to propose his name as the next CM whenever he decides to return. All the party legislators want this.
There were reports of discord between you and Nitish Kumar.
These are baseless rumours. In a family, every member is allowed to put forth their opinion, but decisions are taken on the basis of the majority. Nitish ji is our leader and we go to him to seek his advice on issues. But I am the CM and I run the government. There were occasions when he felt some decisions should be delayed, but I insisted otherwise and he accepted my view. But there have also been instances where he persuaded me with facts and figures over some decisions. There is no difference of opinion here.
There are allegations of indiscipline in your Cabinet. A few days back you said in the state Assembly that several districts faced a drought-like situation. The very next day your agriculture minister disputed your claim on the floor of the House.
Whatever I said in the house has now been substantiated by facts. I saw on the ground how difficult the situation was for farmers because of scarce rainfall. People are demanding that the government declare their districts drought-affected. But that doesn't mean Narendra Singh (the agriculture minister) was wrong. He may have said what he saw in his home district, which has received above normal rainfall this year. Our Cabinet meetings see healthy discussions and exchange of views. But my word is final in matters of governance and everybody accepts it.
The law and order situation has deteriorated in the state. Incidents of communal violence have also increased.
I don't believe communal violence has gone up in Bihar. There is complete communal harmony in the state. Anti-social elements had engineered some of these incidents. We have asked the people and administration to keep a constant vigil. The number of criminal cases may have gone up, but that does not mean that the number of incidents have increased.
What about the incidents of police firing? There have been four such major incidents in the last three months.
It was seen that police officials were being beaten up just because they were following court orders. The police has to take tough action if people flout rules to achieve political goals. I accept that it is possible those responsible for these law and order situations might have run away and innocent civilians became victims. We have announced compensation for the victims. I don't think the police over-reacted, but we have constituted high-level investigation committees to look into these incidents.