Strategic Management in the Art of Theatre (SMART) has been conceived and is run by a core team under the aegis of the India Theatre Forum, and managed by Junoon Theatre and India Foundation for the Arts. Pronoti Datta moderates this conversation between Hari Sankaran, vice-chairman and managing director of IL&FS, and theatre director and SMART core team member Sunil Shanbag, on how the arts can be woven into the infrastructure of a city
Pronoti Datta: When we talk about infrastructure, we mean roads, transport and energy. We rarely talk about the arts. How do you accommodate the arts in a conversation about infrastructure?
Hari Sankaran: Let's think of infrastructure as a set of attributes stuck at a point in time. For example, a road represents an asset on which one can drive, walk. Look at Carter Road. You have cars going up and down, you have a promenade. And you have attributes around that road that make it useful for the community. You have an amphitheatre. You have the people of Bandra wishing to engage in certain kinds of interactions as a society. Then you begin to use this kind of space to anchor these interactions. If we reflect as to how we can improve the promenade, to further engage with the community, you begin to see some correlation between built space and conversations around that built space.
Pronoti Datta: One lack performers face is the paucity of venues. It's an infrastructural problem. Isn't this a space where the state can step in? For example, look at the mills. They aren't being earmarked for the arts but for real estate instead.
Hari Sankaran: Yes, for example, the Highline in New York. An unused railway track has become the centrepiece of New York's real estate. What was a bad locality has now become a supreme place to go to in the city. We have something like five parks in Bandra and they are completely empty after 8 pm. Why can't we build temporary structures that can be dismantled and stored in the park itself which allow performances to take place?
Sunil Shanbag: In Mumbai, theatre people need spaces to rehearse. We compete for that space with people who want to use it for other things that probably generate more revenue. So, do you think an economic argument presented to the state of culture as an activity that generates livelihood and provides services to make Mumbai a major tourist destination would work, rather than an argument that says that it makes society more human?
Hari Sankaran: I think it's a great argument. The fastest growing sector across the world today is the services sector. Performing arts master-planned into a ward level activity will actually allow the municipal corporation in Mumbai to say that we can create 10,000 new jobs in Bandra; we can create 25,000 new jobs in Andheri.
I believe by giving that kind of intense push to the performing arts you will actually create jobs that don't exist in the city.
Pronoti Datta: This is something you are trying to do with SMART isn't it? Are you trying to give theatre people management inputs so that they can operate in an economically viable fashion?
Sunil Shanbag: I think one of the things that SMART has tried to do is to (encourage you) to start thinking of yourself as a theatre company. The general tendency is to see the arts as outside of society. When you see yourself differently, I think you become a little more assertive. Then you can say that you have a role to play in the city.
Hari Sankaran: There is a further connection to think about it. We are in the 21st century. In the 20th century we were able to create jobs for people because they were skilled to take on those jobs. But in the 21st century, with automation, robotics, artificial intelligence, that world is changing.
Pronoti Datta: When we talk about infrastructure, we mean roads, transport and energy. We rarely talk about the arts. How do you accommodate the arts in a conversation about infrastructure?
Hari Sankaran: Let's think of infrastructure as a set of attributes stuck at a point in time. For example, a road represents an asset on which one can drive, walk. Look at Carter Road. You have cars going up and down, you have a promenade. And you have attributes around that road that make it useful for the community. You have an amphitheatre. You have the people of Bandra wishing to engage in certain kinds of interactions as a society. Then you begin to use this kind of space to anchor these interactions. If we reflect as to how we can improve the promenade, to further engage with the community, you begin to see some correlation between built space and conversations around that built space.
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Sunil Shanbag: Just to take this further - your argument assumes that a particular society is naturally interested in these conversations that manifest themselves through art or the performing arts. If you bring in the question of agency, then a lot of the infrastructure in India is owned and run by the state. There is a total lack of interest from the state, and if art happens, it's purely a private initiative. For example, I have just come back from Bengaluru and we performed over six days at six different alternative venues. This fits in perfectly with your theory. These are infrastructural assets - buildings, bookshops, somebody's bungalow. The owners of these spaces (act) in conjunction with people who are interested in creating some work there. People respond by thronging to these spaces.
Pronoti Datta: One lack performers face is the paucity of venues. It's an infrastructural problem. Isn't this a space where the state can step in? For example, look at the mills. They aren't being earmarked for the arts but for real estate instead.
Hari Sankaran: Yes, for example, the Highline in New York. An unused railway track has become the centrepiece of New York's real estate. What was a bad locality has now become a supreme place to go to in the city. We have something like five parks in Bandra and they are completely empty after 8 pm. Why can't we build temporary structures that can be dismantled and stored in the park itself which allow performances to take place?
Sunil Shanbag: In Mumbai, theatre people need spaces to rehearse. We compete for that space with people who want to use it for other things that probably generate more revenue. So, do you think an economic argument presented to the state of culture as an activity that generates livelihood and provides services to make Mumbai a major tourist destination would work, rather than an argument that says that it makes society more human?
Hari Sankaran: I think it's a great argument. The fastest growing sector across the world today is the services sector. Performing arts master-planned into a ward level activity will actually allow the municipal corporation in Mumbai to say that we can create 10,000 new jobs in Bandra; we can create 25,000 new jobs in Andheri.
I believe by giving that kind of intense push to the performing arts you will actually create jobs that don't exist in the city.
Pronoti Datta: This is something you are trying to do with SMART isn't it? Are you trying to give theatre people management inputs so that they can operate in an economically viable fashion?
Sunil Shanbag: I think one of the things that SMART has tried to do is to (encourage you) to start thinking of yourself as a theatre company. The general tendency is to see the arts as outside of society. When you see yourself differently, I think you become a little more assertive. Then you can say that you have a role to play in the city.
Hari Sankaran: There is a further connection to think about it. We are in the 21st century. In the 20th century we were able to create jobs for people because they were skilled to take on those jobs. But in the 21st century, with automation, robotics, artificial intelligence, that world is changing.