'Babus main beneficiaries of RTI act'

Q&A

Chief Information Commissioner Wajahat Habibullah talks to Aasha Khosa about the effectiveness of the RTI Act

The Central Information Commission (CIC) is being viewed as just another grievance redress cell in the government. It has hardly helped create a transparency revolution that the landmark RTI Act passed two years ago had promised.

Maybe expectations from the RTI Act were too high and hence the criticism. I don't think the CIC has proved just a grievance redress cell. Actually, the premise on which the public perception of the RTI's impact is based is that the government is not disclosing its secrets. Maybe there were not too many secrets to be dug out through the RTI, or maybe the secrets were not put into the information stream to be accessed through this landmark Act, but I still say that the Act has been very effective in some areas. For example, the majority of the applications moved under this Act are from the government officials who want to know why they did not get promotions or why others were promoted. It has generated transparency there. Another area where people are making use of this Act is in land allotments by the authorities like the Delhi Development Authority and the Municipal Corporation of Delhi.

One thing which must be made clear is that the RTI was never meant to be an anti-corruption legislation. But there have been complaints that the CIC is reluctant to impose penalties on the officials who do not give information to the applicants under the Act. People often come to me with these complaints. Some of them even want the CIC to file charge sheets against the erring officials. But this is not within the purview of the Act.

We have not only imposed financial penalties but also recovered 90 per cent of them from the officers. On an average, CIC is disposing of 500 cases per month. Again, I must say that the functioning of the Act is not alien to the governmental system. Earlier, information was readily available, but after paying a bribe. So the RTI Act has brought transparency in the functioning of the government. But people come and tell me that "kuch baat nahin bani (RTI is not quite effective)" because they were expecting the Act to be a potion for all the ills of the system.

What needs to be done to make the Act more effective and its usage universal?

The computerisation of government departments will be a final answer to all the ills. Currently, even if we computerise our office as we are doing, it would not help much as for every small piece of data I would have to ask for paper files lodged with other departments. In fact, this is the feedback from the appellate authority too "" that all departments of the government should be computerised to make its functioning transparent and corruption-free.

The record of the states in implementing the RTI Act is not that satisfactory. Is that the reason why the Act has failed to create a nation-wide wave?

Bangalore has made headway in this. They have created RTI banks run by NGOs where the flow of applications under the Act is monitored. In a way, this serves the purpose of spreading the message. Maharashtra has also done well. Interestingly, West Bengal has made no headway. Orissa is not effective. Kerala is not moving much. Maybe states like Kerala, with a high literacy rate and political awareness, do not need to take recourse to RTI. Though Jammu and Kashmir had RTI before the national Act came into being, it remains a toothless instrument. There even the central government departments like the AG's office, Doordarshan, All India Radio have not appointed information officers. But the security forces have done it.

Who have been the main beneficiaries of the Act?

The babus in the government. The majority of the applications that come to us are from officials. Everyone wants to check why they were denied promotions. I came across an interesting episode where one officer, who had been posted to Bihar while he was supposed to be replying to our notices on a complaint under the RTI, was denied permission to inspect the files. The system is so senseless and cruel. The officer had to approach the CIC for getting access to files. But the RTI has done one good thing to the government "" it has made government realise its follies.

Your treatise on Kashmir, written in the US, got you into trouble. You were given all sorts of labels and everyone wondered how a Secretary with the Government of India could speak about 'azadi' for Kashmiris?

I was in the US when the Indian media was writing stories on my paper submitted to an American institute. Believe me, even I was expecting a lot of grilling once I reached home. But nothing of that sort happened. Not a single person approached me on this. The entire controversy fizzled out suddenly.

But do you believe that given a chance, people of Kashmir would opt out of India?

History tells that the people of Kashmir under Sheikh Abdullah were the most decisive in opting for India at the time of Partition. But today Kashmiris really have a problem like the people had in Punjab. We must try to help them get out of this as we did in Punjab.

You are very close to the Nehru-Gandhi family. People believe that you have been getting important positions in the government because of this link.

I don't go and ask Madam Gandhi for a favour simply because I happened to be in the same school where her husband (Rajiv Gandhi) was. In fact, Sanjay Gandhi was a closer friend in school than Rajiv Gandhi. Rajiv left for England and I saw more of Sanjay. Later, I worked with Rajiv when he was the prime minister. I personally admired his vision of India that was closer to my own. The vision was of India as a leading democracy in the world, a liberal economy, a congregation of diversities, liberal democratic country where Panchayati Raj prevailed, etc.

After Rajiv Gandhi's death, you joined the Rajiv Gandhi Foundation (RGF). At that time, surely you must have interacted with Mrs Gandhi?

Yes, I helped her set up the RGF. I found her to be a very nice and sensitive person. Once when I was in the PMO, she visited Phulbani in Orissa along with her husband. The PM was introduced to two orphaned girls. She was so concerned about them that till a long time after that, she would keep inquiring about them. She would ask me whether I had checked up on those two girls. She used to accompany her husband in intense heat. She was never pushy. Not even when it came to interacting with us in the PMO. She always came across as an extremely modest and self-sufficient person.