'Implementation of quota policy biggest fraud'

Q&A: Buta Singh

National Commission for Scheduled Castes Chairperson Buta Singh talks to Sreelatha Menon and Aasha Khosa

What makes you ask for more powers for the National Commission for Scheduled Castes?

I have not asked for more powers. I have only said that the powers given to the commission in the Constitution have been eroded and should be restored. I have only asked for restoration of the commission's powers.

What are the powers that have got eroded?

We have the powers of a civil court, powers to investigate, cross-examine and give orders. The decisions we take after this and send to the ministries or public sector organisations or the parties concerned are not being implemented. Instead, they are taken as advice, which may or may not be implemented. This is an erosion of power.

You said that you wanted to be like the Election Commission?

Yes, I was giving an example. The Representation of People Act is enforced through the EC, and even the Supreme Court cannot interfere with that. The situation with the enforcement of the reservation Act should be similar to that.

Amendments have already been sent to the Cabinet under Article 338 and this has to be passed by Parliament. But the Act has been amended so many times without the consent of the commission.

The apex court had talked of keeping the "creamy layer" out of reservations in a recent hearing on the Other Backward Classes quota case.

The apex court had tackled the creamy layer issue regarding the SCs much earlier in the Mandal case, though it was a case concerning the OBCs. When 15 per cent reservation is constitutionally mandated for the SCs and only 6 per cent is being implemented, where does the creamy layer come in the picture?

While the reservation for OBCs was yet to be implemented, the ex-parte ruling on SCs got implemented everywhere. I stopped Parliament for two days and the then Prime Minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, said he would get the order of the government withdrawn.

But look at the government's conduct: while the statement was made in Parliament, it was never communicated to the states.

What about the quota in jobs in the private sector?

Wait, I will tell you. First listen to how the premier medical institute in the country, the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, has made its own quota policy. Prior to 1997, quotas were based on vacancies. Then it was changed to quotas based on total posts. So, this ensured that the turn of the SC never came. Then, more recently, AIIMS introduced a new system of quota on a shifting basis. If there is no SC candidate, then use someone else. I will call the health minister, the Department of Personnel and Training (DoPT) secretary and the AIIMS director for an explanation on this. I will fix accountability. How can they introduce such a policy? It has now been copied by the Delhi University. It is against the Constitution.

Implementation of the reservation policy is the biggest fraud. People in AIIMS have suffered for the last 21 years because of this. Unhone dhajjiya udadi reservation policy ki. (They have totally destroyed the quota policy).

What about the percentage of reservation?

Again, there is dilution unless numbers are updated. It should be 15 per cent for SCs, but latest census figures show that the SC population has gone up to 28 per cent. In Punjab, it is 32 per cent, in Rajasthan 28 per cent and so on.

Now, can we talk about the question of quota in industry? Industry is seeking voluntary affirmative action.

I have read in the media that the prime minister held consultations with industry and all the chambers. They said they will do it voluntarily and have their own ombudsman. That is a positive response. But it is hostile at the same time. For, the question is: who will get it implemented. Why shouldn't they agree to the law?

Do you think quota is the only solution? What is wrong with affirmative action?

When specific reservation has not been implemented, then affirmative action is pious and wishful thinking. I will accept it if you make it a part of the Constitution, and fix responsibility. We are not in favour of quota. And the so-called private sector will always be dependent on Government of India for foreign exchange and guarantees. These two elements are government controlled. Till these elements are there, they have to go by what the Constitution says. The private sector is having a free meal and does not want to have any responsibility.

When I hear that the railways are going to outsource personnel and services, I am terrified, for there are thousands of Dalits in the railways. They may lose their jobs.

What about the justice system for the Dalits?

There is hope there as Gram Nyayalayas are coming up in 5,000 panchayats, each with one judicial magistrate and two government advocates. We have asked for a jury also: one SC member and one from the general category, from the local community itself.

Without these changes, the Act cannot be finalised. We have asked for the reservation Act to provide full coverage to the judiciary. The reason? The place where I was born is not my land. The landlord can say, "Remove Buta." The judge will evict me and then where do I go? I don't know how long my parents have been there as we have no 'patta'. This is the story of thousands of Dalits. So we need reservation for judges and advocates besides a jury to handle these cases sensitively.

You have been sidelined by your party. Why is that?

I joined the Congress in 1966. I had to choose between civil services and politics and I opted for the latter on my teacher's advice. Today, my pension is more than my salary. I am yet to decide which to opt for. And, in the party, the most difficult work I undertook was the repair of the Golden Temple. I did it in four-and-a-half months after all leaders refused to take it up.